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The Rasslin Thread
04 November 2016 08:41 Post ID: #933820
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As promised.. A place for the great unwashed who know their kayfabe from their shoots and recognise that the screw job isn't a specialist film.

First shot...

Your 5 favourite matches of all time? (subjective ones are fine)
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04 November 2016 13:01 Post ID: #933863 - in reply to #933820
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Ah the screw job, as a huge Bret mark in the 90s, even bigger than he is for himself, that took some getting over. He knew WCW wouldn't know how to use him and well we know how that turned out.

Agree on Bayley btw, she isn't the best looking but is all heart in the ring and has a cracking behind which doesn't hurt. The Sasha - Bayley ironwoman and takeover Brooklyn matches really, really impressed me.

Also agree on AJ, I don't think Vince had any idea of how good he was but I for one totally marked out when he debuted at the Rumble. I have no idea what Vince is doing jobbing out Anderson and Gallows and making them some sort of (unfunny) comedy act, criminal waste of talent.

Have you watched the monday night wars series? got all nostalgic watching them, great stuff. Recently been trying to explain to my daughter who the fook Goldberg is. I also catch quite a few wrestling podcasts, enjoy stone cold and sam roberts.

Top 5 matches is a hard ask, I change my mind quite often but here are a few that have stuck with me in no particular order, overlooking recent ones really, try not to judge!

Bret vs Austin (WM 13)
Bret vs Shawn (WM 12)
Hogan vs Warrior (WM6) - NOT for the work!
Punk vs Cena (MiB 2011)
Rey vs Eddie (Halloween Havoc 97)





Edited by Skip_4 4/11/2016 13:05
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04 November 2016 20:52 Post ID: #933898 - in reply to #933863
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Only have one Rowdy Roddy Piper and Greg " the hammer" Valentine Dog collar match
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05 November 2016 10:40 Post ID: #933931 - in reply to #933863
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Skip_4 - 4/11/2016 13:01

Ah the screw job, as a huge Bret mark in the 90s, even bigger than he is for himself, that took some getting over. He knew WCW wouldn't know how to use him and well we know how that turned out.

Agree on Bayley btw, she isn't the best looking but is all heart in the ring and has a cracking behind which doesn't hurt. The Sasha - Bayley ironwoman and takeover Brooklyn matches really, really impressed me.

Also agree on AJ, I don't think Vince had any idea of how good he was but I for one totally marked out when he debuted at the Rumble. I have no idea what Vince is doing jobbing out Anderson and Gallows and making them some sort of (unfunny) comedy act, criminal waste of talent.

Have you watched the monday night wars series? got all nostalgic watching them, great stuff. Recently been trying to explain to my daughter who the fook Goldberg is. I also catch quite a few wrestling podcasts, enjoy stone cold and sam roberts.

Top 5 matches is a hard ask, I change my mind quite often but here are a few that have stuck with me in no particular order, overlooking recent ones really, try not to judge!

Bret vs Austin (WM 13)
Bret vs Shawn (WM 12)
Hogan vs Warrior (WM6) - NOT for the work!
Punk vs Cena (MiB 2011)
Rey vs Eddie (Halloween Havoc 97)





I tend to be almost kinda of on the fence regarding the screwjob. Bret should have done business but then it was a shitty thing to do to him. Being that HBK is in my opinion the greatest of all time, I feel he does get way too much heat for the whole fiasco but his attitude at the time did also stink. It's a tough one and I suppose that's why it's still fascinating even Today. I do wish they would stop referencing it though in match finishes, it's been done into the ground.

Bayley is just hot to me, apart from the cracking body she just has an aura. The match that turned me on womens wrestling was Bayley v Sasha at Takeover: Brooklyn. I do wish Sasha would find some new material though instead of constantly using the word 'History' seventeen times every promo she does. I am also big mark for Becky Lynch, who again I have bit of a thing for.

I don't think there is anyone who is happier than me that AJ is getting the push he deserves. Apparently Vince never intended for him to be this high up the card but was impressed with the matches he put on with Reigns and how he carries himself for a man of his size. I think the confidence is a big factor and the guy can get a good match out of his own cardboard cutout.

Yes I have seen the Monday Night Wars series and it's the sole reason initially I got the network. I actually had to use a VPN and pretend to be from Seattle just to get the network before it launched in the UK. A really good series and a full blown nostalgia trip. The attitude era hit when I was 13 - 17 and so I was smack bang in the middle of it as a real fan.

Nice to see someone else rocking the podcasts. I listen to the Austin ones, Talk is Jericho, Ross Report and PW Torch. The main ones though Solomonster Sounds Off (Highly recomended, this guy knows his onions!), The Attitude Era Podcast (three very funny blokes reviewing every PPV from the AE) and How2Wrestling (Chap from the AE podcast teaching his partner about wrestling).

Good choice of matches and like you there are so many to list. The Warrior Hogan match from WM 6 is still for me the most iconic match from my childhood. In terms of spectacle and drawing power I think it was the biggest for many years. Punk Cena at MITB 2011 with the build, the psychology and the match itself was the best stuff WWE has done in the past decade IMO. Punk might be a massive prick but he was so god damned talented.

My personal picks off the top of my head, but in all honesty I have about 20:

Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WM25)
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - Street Fight (Royal Rumble 2000)
Shinsuke Nakamura vs AJ Styles (Wrestle Kingdom 10)
The Dudleys vs Edge & Christian vs The Hardys - TLC 2 - (WM17)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in the Cell - (Badd Blood: In Your House)

Ask me again in a week and I am sure some of those will change.
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05 November 2016 12:27 Post ID: #933955 - in reply to #933820
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Ah Fen, you're a full on wrestling geek, nothing but respect from me!

There are a few more a@@@@st us trickies I bet but you have to be quieter about it when you get older to avoid the "don't you know it isn't real" and "isn't that for kids" kind of bs.

Virtually every other wrestling fan I know was a Michaels fan over Bret but not me. Completely biased towards the Hitman but I think there were 2 events that caused this during my childhood. I loved both the Hart Foundation and Rockers but saw Bret vs Dynamite on video (back when Bret wore blue and black) and was blown away without really appreciating why. Then Shawn put Marty through the friggin barbershop window! Scarred for life ffs.

Bayley has something going on, I dont usually buy a bright purple t-shirt telling the world that 'I'm a hugger' in big yellow letters but felt compelled to. Miserable bugger would be more accurate for me. I know Sasha is a lifelong fan but those constant "always been my dream" and "making history" promos are very generic and repetitive. I've become a big fan of Charlotte's work recently and enjoy the Becky and Alexa program on Smackdown too.

You're not wrong about AJ either, he doesn't seem capable of having a bad match and you never once question his size, totally credible champion. I didn't see too much of him in Japan, I always have to catch up on NJPW stuff on youtube when I get the chance. I wish I had more time to watch some ROH stuff too (I'm not one of those who thinks the wreslting world begins and ends with wwe).

Thanks for the podcast suggestions, I do catch Jericho, Ross, a bit of PWtorch and others but Solomonster and the attitude era suggestions are new to me and I'll give em a go.

I did have quite a prolonged period were I didn't catch much wrestling at all around the mid noughties (kids, work, moving around etc) but the bug never left me. I have enjoyed NXT in the last few years immensely, more than the main show for the most part. I miss having the network, had it for a few months around mania time this year and binge watched it to death!

I can't argue with your match choices at all, in fact I'm a little embarrased that I don't have any Taker matches on my list or TLC. I could include anything for silly reasons though, for example, I remember watching Hogan vs Goldberg on Nitro from the Georgiadome like it was yesterday, could feel the atmosphere and excitement throught the TV. Shitty in-ring work and shoulda been saved for a PPV, but I'll never forget it.

What other t-shirts would you admit to having? I have a couple of punk and american alpha (loved their NXT matches with the revival).
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05 November 2016 13:34 Post ID: #933965 - in reply to #933955
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I am a full on wrestling geek and I god damn proud of it. I don’t listen to ignorance of the muggles when they want to throw out the whole “you know its fake right?” because they are only making themselves look idiotic. I tell them to go to a wrestling school and see how they feel after a taking a few flat backs and a few hours of running the ropes. Usually shuts them up.

I am a HBK fan over Bret. I love Bret but damn he takes himself far too seriously and whilst he is a better technical wrestler, I always found Shawn to be the better overall wrestler/performer. But I can never not love Bret, simply because of the matches I remember as a kid. Him vs Perfect and that masterpiece at WM 10 with Owen (R.I.P.), also not forgetting the Ironman match at 12.

Have to say Alexa Bliss has stepped up her game in recent months, really seems to have found her niche and is getting over big time. Bayley is being squandered on RAW though (then again who isn’t these days?).

As for AJ, I urge you to check out his match with Nakamura at Wrestle Kingdom 10, it’s mind blowing. Putting the belt on him was the smartest thing they did on Smackdown, which I consider the better show. I just cannot watch RAW anymore, the 3 hours is killing it and the nonsensical booking is wasting so many great talents. They are making the same mistakes with a new generation of performers and it winds me up. The roster (NXT included) is the most talented and loaded it’s ever been, yet they still proceed to piss it against the wall. Smackdown seems to be the only main show at least taking care of them. Sammi Zayn needs to go to Smackdown big time.

I check out some ROH but I am not a massive fan I find the style is too snug and fast. It lacks psychology and ffs they could sell once in a while. They do have some great matches though. I dip into NJPW at various points, along with some the UK stuff (the wrestling scene is exploding over here).

I have gone through phases of not watching WWE. I stopped in 2001 after the Attitude Era ended mainly because I didn’t have the means to watch it anymore and I kinda kept up from time to time. 2007 I got back into it again but then got sick to death of the staleness and went back to dipping in every so often. I think the bug never truly leaves the real fans and that’s a good thing. Essentially the business will never die, and I believe ironically WWE is the best and worst thing to ever happen to it. The content on the network is astonishing though and for someone who didn’t watch the main shows for a while, it was awesome for getting my fix with the classic stuff. I even find myself watching old AWA matches, many of which are really good.

I currently have a Nakamura t-shirt (that guy is a genius!), I had the Best in the World Punk shirt and the Daniel Bryan bearded ‘Yes!’ shirt. I did have stupid levels of merch back when I was younger, unfortunately most of them got ruined, ripped or lost. I still have my very first Austin 3:16 shirt though. In terms of fandom my prize possession is my replica winged eagled world heavyweight championship belt. Made from the original cast of the title from the 90s. Cost me circa £400.00 and is probably the most I have ever spent on a collectible. I don’t regret it though, it looks superb.

Anyways off to the match. FFS I am nervous!
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06 November 2016 17:59 Post ID: #934158 - in reply to #933820
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Just for you Skip.

Nakamura vs AJ Styles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VsW9IN6ASg
Nakamura vs Kota Ibushi (with Jim Ross commentating!) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VsW9IN6ASg

Both 5 star matches in their own right. Enjoy fella.
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06 November 2016 19:26 Post ID: #934165 - in reply to #933820
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Cheers Fen, I'm always looking for new material to get me through my commute (no need to report me, I don't drive to work!). I use the time to catch up on shows, individual matches, podcasts etc. Sometimes get funny looks from nosey types but no shits given of course.

I had only seen the briefest flashes of Nakamura and then I watched Takeover Dallas and it was very clear from even the moment his music hit that I had been missing something special! Bonus that good 'ol JR is on commentary, nobody does it better imo. I did nearly buy a strong style t-shirt actually but felt too much of a fraud to do it as I hadn't followed Nakamura before lol. I'll let you know what I make of the matches, but I'm sure both will be top notch.

The winged eagle belt is THE belt to me, nothing else has come close. I think you have made a very shrewd purchase there, excellent taste. My 2nd favourite would be the IC title from my childhood, I know it's virtually the same now, but I would want an exact replica of the one that sat on Bret's, Shawn's and Mr Perfect's waist.

Rather you than me yesterday, I knew we were gonna fook it up late on, it was bad enough just hearing Jeff Stelling say "another goal at the City Ground" in the background. Felt bad for every one of you freezing your tits off and seeing that.
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07 November 2016 10:46 Post ID: #934212 - in reply to #933820
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Both matches are pretty damn special I can promise you that. For me Nakamura just has 'IT' he is literally a text book example of someone having the intangibles. He has charisma oozing out of his ears and he knows it. His in ring work is nigh on flawless not to mention stiff but elegant. He sounds like he kicking the living shit out of them (to be fair he probably is given how stiff he works).

It was nice to have JR back on the headsets but he isn't the same announcer these days. In his prime he was the greatest play by play guy there has ever been. Winds me up how often they overlook the importance of a good announcing team. For me it's as important as the match in the ring. Michael Cole is terrible, Jerry Lawler is a shell, Booker T is just a torrent of terrible sound bites and JBL is cliched to the point of wanting to turn the audio down. Byron Saxton is generic lacking any sort of gravitas and Otunga looks out of his depth. That said Mauro Ranello I really like, I really like his 50s esque radio voice and he actually calls the moves. Corey Graves I also really like as well and him with Ranello would be my ideal announcing team right now. King and JR probably the best team ever but JR with Heyman was magic as well. Have to say though, Bobby Heenan probably my fav overall announcer and IMO the most naturally talented performer in the history of the business. He literally had an almost psychic ability to say the best stuff at the drop of a hat with perfect timing.

We park our cars in the same garage when it comes to belt design. I adore the old style IC title, but I do wish they would revert back to the black strap. I have to say the universal title it down right ugly but I do rather like the design for the womens belt. I also wish they would use the old Tag Belts for one of the brands at least as big and as bulky as they were, they still looked great.

Not to push the issue but you really need to check out the Attitude Era podcast, I don't always agree with them but their back and forth is hilarious. Its interesting to see how misogynist the AE really was at times, it's actually pretty shocking.
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11 November 2016 22:23 Post ID: #934808 - in reply to #933820
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Damnit I realised I posted the same link twice:

The correct Nakamura vs Ibushi link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eMoVvESSpE

Sorry fella!

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12 November 2016 15:24 Post ID: #934853 - in reply to #933820
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Finally got around to watching the matches Fen although it took a while to get through the Ibushi match as my son decided we should switch to a Joe - Nakamura match as he got Joe in his latest pack of wrestling cards this morning!

Anyway, 2 great matches but the AJ match edges it for me. I was immediately happy that AJ has the proper bullet club logo on his tights and gloves, not important for the match but made me happy anyway. It truly is a masterpiece and a lesson for others to follow, tell a simple yet compelling story, and take your time to sell and let the crowd digest what they're seeing. Maybe I'm just getting old but everything seems too fast today and so many highspots in play that hardly any moves mean anything (kicking out from finishers too much drives me mad). AJ and Nakamura have some chemistry, the transitions, chain wreslting, I have rarely seen such an unspoken understanding between 2 wrestlers. I also love the different feel of the ring and how quiet and respetful the Japanese crowd are, some may find that odd but I love the cultural contrast to the US crowd. Was there a missed spot when AJ backflipped off the top rope and followed wth an elbow or was that deliberate? Doesn't matter in a match of this quality though, brutal and beautiful at exactly the right points. I enjoyed AJ playing possum with the injured back and then attacking (you don't see it much these days) and similarly enjoyed him working the leg towards the calf crusher. That triangle into the styles clash did it for me too. The bomaye looks friggin brutal, I would not like to take one of those for sure. Maybe the best moment was the touching of fists at the end, not unusual I know but showing respect after a match of that quality is fitting.

I have to admit I didn't know much about Ibushi, I'm not even sure if he is actually with wwe? I enjoyed the high flying style, that standing corkscrew moonsault was so impressive for starters. Some real brutal strikes in this one too, a real must for those who think 'wrestling doesn't really hurt'. I liked the narrative that this young upstart was trying to upstage the more established guy, and the mocking of Nakamura was great (especially with the foot in the corner!). Even a few laughs in this one which I didn't expect.

I'm well behind on the podcasts this week just because of having a fooker with work, no notsam or austin even, which I usually always catch. I did catch one of the AE podcasts yesterday though, decided to go with the 'end of an era' one so I could get all the summaries and refresh my mind (best/worst feuds, PPVs etc) and enjoyed it a lot. The Irish guy in particular cracked me up with his let's say 'frank' assessments of some of the worst stuff from that era. Now I have a major problem though, there is so much now I want to revisit, where to begin! One thing I took away form it though was that even though we were spoiled with a deep roster, there was always some absolute dross matches and PPVs despite that. Something that I had glossed over with the passing years.

I won't be going back to see Taker/Austin buried alive or Taker/Shamrock for example but am particularly interested into going back an watching Rumble 2000 (esp HHH/cactus jack) and mania 17. I often joke today when watching angles that 'in the attitude era they'd have done this or that (insert outrageous and shocking action) but it's probably true! Literally anything went, and looking back, the treatment of the women was shocking even though as a young man I appreciated the 'bra and panties' matches. I was young and it was a completely different era to be fair. Obviously now I much prefer to see the women actually wrestle (Hug Life all the way).

Looking forward to see Goldberg meet Lesnar on raw as long as he doesn't slip on his ass again like when being fed Rusev. Just for old times sake. Haven't seen Smackdown or Raw this week (unusual) but Raw is usually disappointing and I watch on fastforward anyway!

Edited by Skip_4 12/11/2016 15:29
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13 November 2016 11:48 Post ID: #934900 - in reply to #933820
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Joe and Nakamura was also a great math. Bring on the rematch! I love Joe, he comes across as a total killer and he seems so ‘Cool’ whilst doing it. Not long before he is on the main roster.

The Styles Nakamura match is a work of art IMO. You’re right when you say some stuff is too fast these days. There seems to be a total lack of understanding at times with some matches, where they believe they have to put on a gymnastics contest. However, if there is no selling or psychology you forget about the moves 2 minutes later. Many matches become spotfests and I have to say I am sick to the back teeth of everyone having some sort of suicide dive move to the outside these days. It’s no longer special. The styles match shows that you can have fast paced high flying athleticism if you temper it properly with genuine selling/psychology. This is part of the reason ROH isn’t exactly my fav promotion sometimes, because they often go crazy with the speed with little to no pauses.

I think there is no doubting that when two performers have chemistry there is nothing better. I always think back to Mankind and Rock, in the ring and out of the ring those two were made for each other. I still love the Rock & Sock stuff and one scene in particular where The Rock is walking past Mankind who is sprawled on the floor and Mick shouts out “Win one for the Micker!”, the Rock continues walking pauses and shouts back “Who in the hell is the Micker?… IDIOT!”. Pure Gold! Far too many perfect combos to list though. Rock Austin, Bret Shawn, HHH Mick Foley etc.

Ibushi was in the Cruiserweight Classic and the only reason I honestly believe he didn’t win was because he didn’t sign for a full time WWE contract (I know they offered him one). He does show up from time to time on NXT doing sporadic appearances. He is the real deal though.

Yeah the AE podcast is funny, the irish guy Kefin Mahan is incredibly funny. Aside from the main stuff which is great, their bonus episodes are surprisingly interesting. Their Brawl for All review (remember that monstrosity?) is hilarious.

What to say about Wrestlemania 17? It is IMO the best PPV of all time for a myriad of reason. First of all the card was stacked and I can’t think of a single bad match on it. Most importantly is timing, a week before this WCW ceased to be and the Monday Night Wars were concluded. I mean what a fantastic story, the greatest era of pro wrestling comes to a close as your biggest show of the year is about to hit. For me 17 was the perfect punctuation mark and it was also incredibly bitter sweet. The Monday Night wars was unique in that I don’t think we will ever see two massive organisations in wrestling go head to head like this again. Not to mention a ‘Third’ smaller but still as culturally important promotion nestled into between them both. I was exciting seeing different people jump between the promotions and you didn’t know who the hell was going to show up where The great thing about the network is, all the Raw/Nitro episodes from that era are available to watch in full.

I’ll say it again, whatever crap WWE produce the network is still one of the best things they ever did. So much content!
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20 November 2016 05:41 Post ID: #935666 - in reply to #933820
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Did you watch Takeover Skip?

Good show!.. The tag match was epic and the Main Event was seriously good too. I am surprised Joe went over. Nakamura to the main roster? Lets hope to God he goes to Smackdown and not Raw.
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20 November 2016 22:35 Post ID: #935769 - in reply to #933820
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I signed up to the Network just over a month ago for my son and we started watching every show, including Raws, from Wrestlemania 14 in chronological order and so far up to In Your House (which was pretty shit) from May 98

We listen to the Attitude podcast to coincide with the PPVs as well, they're pretty good.

It's actually a nice way for the two of us to spend some time together when we're actually in the house.

I didn't realise how offensive Lawler was when I watched it first time round but can't believe with some of the stuff he got away with.
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21 November 2016 13:05 Post ID: #935809 - in reply to #933820
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You a new fan LBL or a relapsed one?

That's a really good idea to do the podcasts in tandem with the shows. 98 is a bit of a ironic one in WWF/E it has some wonderful stuff but some downright dogshite at the same time.

Lawler was/is infuriating at times. When he's not drooling like a horny dog he is a brilliant colour commentator but more often than not he never shuts the fook up about puppies.

Over the Edge in your house was pretty bad other than the Main Event. If you are a new fan it does get better going into 99. Here you see a marked drop in the edgier sexist stuff, it's still there at times but the match quality and storylines get a little less sleazy.
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21 November 2016 19:12 Post ID: #935840 - in reply to #933820
Nottingham Forest Legend
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I watched a fair bit when I was a lot younger but lost interest as girls and booze and forest became more of a priority.

The Austin v Dude Love match at IYH98 was immense, one of the best ever for various reasons.
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21 November 2016 22:28 Post ID: #935859 - in reply to #935840
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LBL - great to see another closet wrestling fan a@@@@st us, I suspect there are a fair few more on here keeping quiet.

I have a few similarities with you, followed it as a little un/youth and then lost it for a few years as those other priorities got in the way. My kids are too young for the attitude era stuff just yet, but in this PG era it's something we can watch and enjoy together (every cloud). Funny thing is my daughter is even more into it than my son, but luckily she caught it just as women's wrestling took off. I can't imagine the level of awkwardness if I showed her some of AE stuff involving women!

Fen - caught up with takeover, solid show as usual from top to bottom. The only match I wasn't really into was Asuka/Mickie but probably because I couldn't get to the main event quick enough by that time.

I like Roode's gimmick to be honest, I know it's not great but I was always a beer money fan, those matches with MCMG were as good as any tags I've seen.

Both takeover tags were good, I like the old school feel of the authors of pain (knew sod all about TM61), even if Ellery hanging in the cage was a bit much. Anything involving the revival is awesome in my book, and this rematch didn't disappoint, glad DIY went over.

My first thought about the main result was that Nakamura must be on his way to the main roster but now I'm not so sure, the way the finish went down perhaps hints at a rematch. I do want to see a Brock/Joe brutal slugfest soon though, and I would mark out if Nakamura made a surprise debut as a Rumble entrant!
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