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Democracy
13 December 2017 20:57 Post ID: #991194
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Democracy is temporarily upheld. We won't be screwed by a small band of fanatics in the executive, whoever that might be late next year.

Great news for everyone, leavers and remainers alike. Take back control. Then hopefully cancel Brexit altogether.
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14 December 2017 09:23 Post ID: #991222 - in reply to #991194
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Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.
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14 December 2017 09:31 Post ID: #991224 - in reply to #991194
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This is democracy at work and it's time the right-wing snowflakes accepted it
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14 December 2017 10:34 Post ID: #991226 - in reply to #991222
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Lienking - 14/12/2017 09:23

Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.


"No idea what this vote means"

Well why comment on it then?
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14 December 2017 11:46 Post ID: #991233 - in reply to #991194
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309 is not a small bunch of MPs and many of those voting with the government were whipped to do so, against their better judgement.
And 16m remain voters (*as of June 2016).

The small bunch of MPs you should be worried about is the leave extremists.
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14 December 2017 11:47 Post ID: #991234 - in reply to #991194
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What if 'the people' don't actually want brexit anymore, now that they have an inkling of how destructive it will be?
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14 December 2017 12:23 Post ID: #991235 - in reply to #991194
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What if "the people" don't actually want Brexit anymore because they now realise the case for leave was predicated on a pack of lies?
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14 December 2017 13:42 Post ID: #991237 - in reply to #991226
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mao tse tung - 14/12/2017 10:34

Lienking - 14/12/2017 09:23

Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.


"No idea what this vote means"

Well why comment on it then?


I comment because no one knows what it means. The vote to trigger article 50 went through by 494 votes to 122, including a majority of the labour MPs. I look forward to someone explaining EXACTLY what this changes , other than a vote on a deal or no deal.
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14 December 2017 13:44 Post ID: #991238 - in reply to #991233
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in_the_top_one - 14/12/2017 11:46

309 is not a small bunch of MPs and many of those voting with the government were whipped to do so, against their better judgement.
And 16m remain voters (*as of June 2016).

The small bunch of MPs you should be worried about is the leave extremists.


309 is a very small bunch of MP's, standing in the way of the democratic wishes of 17 million people.
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14 December 2017 13:44 Post ID: #991239 - in reply to #991233
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in_the_top_one - 14/12/2017 11:46

309 is not a small bunch of MPs and many of those voting with the government were whipped to do so, against their better judgement.
And 16m remain voters (*as of June 2016).

The small bunch of MPs you should be worried about is the leave extremists.


309 is a very small bunch of MP's, standing in the way of the democratic wishes of 17 million people.

Edited by Lienking 14/12/2017 13:46
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14 December 2017 16:55 Post ID: #991248 - in reply to #991194
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They aren't standing in the way at all. You've misunderstood amendment 7. It just avoids an idiotic executive making decisions for everybody while being accountable to nobody.

Without the amendment, we would be experiencing the antithesis of democracy and the polar opposite of 'taking back control' and 'making the UK parliament sovereign' (even though it always has been).
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14 December 2017 18:14 Post ID: #991250 - in reply to #991248
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in_the_top_one - 14/12/2017 16:55

They aren't standing in the way at all. You've misunderstood amendment 7. It just avoids an idiotic executive making decisions for everybody while being accountable to nobody.

Without the amendment, we would be experiencing the antithesis of democracy and the polar opposite of 'taking back control' and 'making the UK parliament sovereign' (even though it always has been).


Your opening post says " Take back control. Then hopefully cancel Brexit altogether." That's not quite the same as a democratic vote on leaving. I am all for a democratic vote on the terms on which we leave. We either leave with no deal, or leave with a deal. The democratic votes on the fact we are leaving took place in the referendum, and also in the parliamentary vote on triggering article 50.
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14 December 2017 18:19 Post ID: #991251 - in reply to #991237
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Lienking - 14/12/2017 13:42

mao tse tung - 14/12/2017 10:34

Lienking - 14/12/2017 09:23

Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.


"No idea what this vote means"

Well why comment on it then?


I comment because no one knows what it means. The vote to trigger article 50 went through by 494 votes to 122, including a majority of the labour MPs. I look forward to someone explaining EXACTLY what this changes , other than a vote on a deal or no deal.



Yes, people do know what the vote was about!

Just because your are either too idle to read about it, or too thick to understand it, it does not mean everyone is.

Its not a vote on a deal or no deal at all; nothing remotely like that.

The vote was about accountability or should I say lack of it; certainly a lack of governmental oversight.

If you do not know what accountability means I suggest you speak with an adult.
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14 December 2017 20:53 Post ID: #991263 - in reply to #991251
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mao tse tung - 14/12/2017 18:19

I comment because no one knows what it means. The vote to trigger article 50 went through by 494 votes to 122, including a majority of the labour MPs. I look forward to someone explaining EXACTLY what this changes , other than a vote on a deal or no deal.



Yes, people do know what the vote was about!

Just because your are either too idle to read about it, or too thick to understand it, it does not mean everyone is.

Its not a vote on a deal or no deal at all; nothing remotely like that.

The vote was about accountability or should I say lack of it; certainly a lack of governmental oversight.

If you do not know what accountability means I suggest you speak with an adult.


The first sign that someone is incapable of having a proper discussion is when they resort to insults. I have a degree in economics gained in the days when 7% of the population went to University. I am a qualified accountant with a further qualification recognised by the Australian government as a Masters Degree equivalent. I can assure you I am not thick. I also watch Question Time, Andrew Marr, and numerous other political tv things, so I certainly make an effort to try and understand what is going on.. I have always supported Labour until Corbyn came along, so this thing of accusing people of being right wing is also ludicrous.

Theresa May and Boris say this vote changes nothing . I also read that the lost vote can still be overturned. Other papers say it's the start of the end of Brexit. If you know what this vote means in the long term, you obviously know more than the government and all the reporters.
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14 December 2017 21:05 Post ID: #991265 - in reply to #991237
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Lienking - 14/12/2017 13:42

mao tse tung - 14/12/2017 10:34

Lienking - 14/12/2017 09:23

Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.


"No idea what this vote means"

Well why comment on it then?


I comment because no one knows what it means. The vote to trigger article 50 went through by 494 votes to 122, including a majority of the labour MPs. I look forward to someone explaining EXACTLY what this changes , other than a vote on a deal or no deal.
Never really been interested in it...prefer Pointless and Catchphrase.Hope they keep those shows going chap.
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15 December 2017 08:53 Post ID: #991292 - in reply to #991263
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Lienking - 14/12/2017 20:53

mao tse tung - 14/12/2017 18:19

I comment because no one knows what it means. The vote to trigger article 50 went through by 494 votes to 122, including a majority of the labour MPs. I look forward to someone explaining EXACTLY what this changes , other than a vote on a deal or no deal.



Yes, people do know what the vote was about!

Just because your are either too idle to read about it, or too thick to understand it, it does not mean everyone is.

Its not a vote on a deal or no deal at all; nothing remotely like that.

The vote was about accountability or should I say lack of it; certainly a lack of governmental oversight.

If you do not know what accountability means I suggest you speak with an adult.


The first sign that someone is incapable of having a proper discussion is when they resort to insults. I have a degree in economics gained in the days when 7% of the population went to University. I am a qualified accountant with a further qualification recognised by the Australian government as a Masters Degree equivalent. I can assure you I am not thick. I also watch Question Time, Andrew Marr, and numerous other political tv things, so I certainly make an effort to try and understand what is going on.. I have always supported Labour until Corbyn came along, so this thing of accusing people of being right wing is also ludicrous.

Theresa May and Boris say this vote changes nothing . I also read that the lost vote can still be overturned. Other papers say it's the start of the end of Brexit. If you know what this vote means in the long term, you obviously know more than the government and all the reporters.


I think you will find that the first sign that someone is incapable of having a discussion is when they have not bothered to grasp the subject matter.

If the vote changes nothing why did the Government employ a three line whip prior to the vote?

"I also read that the lost vote can still be overturned. Other papers say it's the start of the end of Brexit. If you know what this vote means in the long term, you obviously know more than the government and all the reporters."

You still have not got it, have you?

And thanks for the CV; I'm not setting on at the moment but I will pass it round.

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15 December 2017 09:07 Post ID: #991293 - in reply to #991292
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mao tse tung - 15/12/2017 08:53


And thanks for the CV; I'm not setting on at the moment but I will pass it round.



Thanks for that. Shame I'm not looking for any work! Interesting on Question time last night that Nikki Morgan and the Labour MP said we are definitely leaving the EU, and that they both simply wants a vote on the deal. I look forward to them both standing by what they said. The unelected Lord Winston however said it could be the start of us not leaving.

At least that clears that up!
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