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Democracy
15 December 2017 11:54 Post ID: #991298 - in reply to #991293
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Lienking - 15/12/2017 09:07

mao tse tung - 15/12/2017 08:53


And thanks for the CV; I'm not setting on at the moment but I will pass it round.



Thanks for that. Shame I'm not looking for any work! Interesting on Question time last night that Nikki Morgan and the Labour MP said we are definitely leaving the EU, and that they both simply wants a vote on the deal. I look forward to them both standing by what they said. The unelected Lord Winston however said it could be the start of us not leaving.

At least that clears that up!


Dear God!

You are hard work!

Its not about the leave vote; that is done and dusted.

There are countless things that need addressing prior to leaving, and its the manner in which the Government are going about things that are causing the concerns, and quite rightly so.

All European legislation is being incorporated into British law; once that is done the Government want to have carte blanche to repeal or amend any laws that they think fit without any oversight from Parliament.

Try Googling Henry VIII laws if you still do not understand.

Which ever way you look at it, it is not even second cousin to Democracy.

Everyone has their own reasons for wanting out, and there are some fairly imaginative reasons put forward; but at the end of the day, the overwhelming issue was race.

People really do think they will be better off when Johnny foreigner has fooked off home; I reckon Johhny foreigner will have the last laugh.


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15 December 2017 14:27 Post ID: #991305 - in reply to #991194
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Love this quote:

"There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators. We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all.
Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge.
We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it.”


Which modern day political hero said these true words in the House of Commons?
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15 December 2017 14:52 Post ID: #991307 - in reply to #991305
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in_the_top_one - 15/12/2017 14:27

Love this quote:

"There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators. We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all.
Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge.
We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it.”


Which modern day political hero said these true words in the House of Commons?


David Davies

Unless it is a pre requisite laid out by the constitution, something this country does not have, referendums are a massive cop out.

Politicians are elected to make difficult decisions; a General Election should be then only referendum that is required
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17 December 2017 18:38 Post ID: #991553 - in reply to #991194
The vote means nothing because the intransigent eu will refuse to renegotiate a deal that the British govt has agreed with them.

I’d be all for parliament looking at the deal if it were full of people with commercial experience but actually it’s full of career politicians.

Nonetheless many sets of eyes are better than a few but as things stand even if they don’t like it they may be in no deal territory if they refuse it.

This has done nothing more than give hard brexiteers a chance to vote against the deal and bring no deal into the equation.

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17 December 2017 18:45 Post ID: #991554 - in reply to #991305
in_the_top_one - 15/12/2017 14:27

Love this quote:

"There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators. We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all.
Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge.
We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it.”


Which modern day political hero said these true words in the House of Commons?


Does that include the 1975 vote and every General Election (which is a quasi referendum) based on rough manifestos? Sorry, but never will the general public get a full picture of everything.

People voted Brexit despite being told they would be considerably worse off and world war 3 was on its way.

People just don’t want to be part of a globalist eu superstate and want control of borders and money. It’s as simple as that.

Edited by toms 17/12/2017 18:48
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17 December 2017 19:29 Post ID: #991561 - in reply to #991222
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Lienking - 14/12/2017 09:23

Not very democratic when my own MP Anna Soubry stands on a mandate that she will not stand in the way of Brexit, then when re-elected does precisely that! No idea what this vote means, but there will be major problems if a small bunch of MP's stand in the way of the only democratic single issue decision that 17 million people have been able to make in the last 40 years.


There will be no problems whatsoever if they finally come to their sense. Plus it was far from democratic when millions were intentionally refused the right to vote.
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